Mk1 1.9 Tdi (110bhp) Crank Shaft Sensor.

[westie]

Hi Guys,

 

My Galaxy (Mk 1, 110, TDI) wont start.

 

Initially it would only play up when warm, but now it wont start at all. The engine spins OK, but wont fire.

 

Ignition seems to beep 5 times which I think means the crank shaft sensor is at fault?

 

If so, is it easy to change for the DIY mechanic or do I need to take it to a garage?

 

....Oh...and is it expensive??

 

Many thanks.

Steve

[Willie Krashitt]

Easy job to do - It sits on the front of the engine and is a simple matter of unplugging the electrical connector, unbolting the sensor and fitting new one. Bad news is that from a Ford dealer it costs a mind boggling

[westie]

Thanks Willie.

 

I am feeling pretty down at the mo. Having to borrow parents car just to get kids to school.

 

Car wont go, just keeps spinning over...and I cant even find where the sensor is.

 

Can I see it from the top of the engine?

 

Is is mounted anywhere near the oil filter, or is it the other side by the air intake?

 

Looks like relay 30 is OK, as I can see diesel at the pump when spinning over?

 

Any help gratefully accepted.

[sepulchrave]

westie,

 

Don't get down about it, stop flattening the battery and buy a CPS from GSF or Euro carparts, even your local factors should do a pattern one.

 

Once you have the new part in your hand you'll know exactly what to look for, the CPS is nearly always at the gearbox end of an engine because it counts teeth on a wheel which is attached to the end of the crankshaft, so look for it down there somewhere, it'll have a two-pin connector plugged into it. It is held in place by one allen screw and has a rubber 'O' ring fitted to stop oil getting past, don't forget to swap it over to the new one.

 

It is just about the only thing which will completely stop a modern ECU controlled engine dead, and is 99% likely to be your problem.

 

You could have had it delivered today and fitted it 5 minutes later, what are you waiting for?

Edited September 17, 2008 by sepulchrave

[westie]

westie,

 

Don't get down about it, stop flattening the battery and buy a CPS from GSF or Euro carparts, even your local factors should do a pattern one.

 

Once you have the new part in your hand you'll know exactly what to look for, the CPS is nearly always at the gearbox end of an engine because it counts teeth on a wheel which is attached to the end of the crankshaft, so look for it down there somewhere, it'll have a two-pin connector plugged into it. It is held in place by one allen screw and has a rubber 'O' ring fitted to stop oil getting past, don't forget to swap it over to the new one.

 

It is just about the only thing which will completely stop a modern ECU controlled engine dead, and is 99% likely to be your problem.

 

You could have had it delivered today and fitted it 5 minutes later, what are you waiting for?

 

Nice one mate, cheered me up reading it.

 

I'm not much of a mechanic, but am capable of doing the easier jobs,

 

I'm just down about the car, the inconvenience, and that i cant even find a simple lead...

 

I did read that the connection is where the gearbox and engine join together, front left of engine...but I cant see it.

 

Not too sure about the 5 min job though, as I was out there last night for an hour and couldnt even find the cable...hence the post.

 

Thanks again.

[Willie Krashitt]

I have attached a diagram showing the location of the sensor. You will probably find it easiest to see if you remove the undertray and look up from below, although it should be accessable from the top. As Sephulcrave says, it is at the gearbox end of the engine at the front, and at the same height as the crankshaft.

Hope that this helps,

George.

[westie]

Many thanks guys,

 

All your help and encouragement is much appreciated.

I will get a new sensor and hopefully get back on the road.

 

Steve

[turk90210]

I will/might poss get shot down for this but here goes anyway

 

""It is just about the only thing which will completely stop a modern ECU controlled engine dead, and is 99% likely to be your problem""

 

Dont think so there are a few things that will stop a diesel engine this is just one of them, (relays,air in fuel lines,timing belt ect ect ect) some of the modern engines will now start without this sensor working as it takes its position from the camshaft sensor instead.

A crankshaft sensor is just an inductive pulse sensor which can be easily checked out using a multimeter ( a nominal resistance and a rising AC voltage when the engine is turning) if it has these then it should be doing its job, I would be more inclined to check via this sort of diagnostics first especially if,as someone has mentioned they are around

[westie]

Hi Turk, thanks for the reply.

This site is great. When people you dont know and will probably never even meet, take time to try and help others out, its great.

As you mention, my 110BHP, 1999TDI has been suffering intermittent problems for a few months now, finally refusing to start about a week or so ago.

I am hoping its nothing major and with the little knowledge I have, am trying to work through the simple things.

 

One thing I found last night, is that the glow plug light is not coming on.

I see there is another thread about this issue, so I am watching that one.

 

I have also found the brake light switch is u/s....and even I can change that!!....is there a connection between the two?

I am sure that I saw the glow plug light flicker when I was messing about with the brake light switch last night.

 

I asked about relay 30....which I now know the TDI doesnt have.

I have a friend who has the thing that you plug into the connection hidded under the ash try, but it would not communicate....hopefully it was a problem with his machine as apparently it needs an upgrade to talk to my type of engine...

 

Funny thing is, my engine will still spin over for England, but there is no beeping ignition now.

Could the glow plugs actually be the problem....maybe I have even flooded the engine??

 

I do have home start....if I call them out, will they be able to diagnose the problem.

 

As I said at the start, thanks to all you you who have tried to help me out.

Your help is much appreciated.

[NikpV]

possible a loose pulley (bottom iirc)- someone has posted before about this working loose - may affect the timing to the extent that it wont start (steadily worsening problem) when it did start was there any evidence of smoking ?

[westie]

Not that I was aware of.

In fact, it USED to run sweet as a nut...when it started!!

Funnily enough, I did manage to bump it a few weeks ago and it ran fine and started again fine for about 2 weeks.....now its conked out again.

[NikpV]

probably rules out timing then, can you bump start it now?

[westie]

Well, had a bloke out today from green Flag.

Not really much help and I am bit disappointed really.

it looks like the fuel is OK,

He cracked the injectors where they enter the engine and diesel came out when the engine spun over.

he sprayed something (brake cleaner??) in the air intake and the car did start!!!

However, after a few seconds, it died again and i was not able to rev it at all.

The guy seems to think its electrical, with fuel not being allowed to be injected, even thoigh it seem to be reaching the injectors?

He did not have a diagnostic machine with him, so could not check anything else out...which pi**ed me off.

 

So, I am still stuck with a car that wont start...even though the guy said..."it should!!"

 

Any ideas as to whether any relays may be suspect, or an immobiliser problem??

 

Thanks for sticking with me...its starting to get to me now.

[seatkid]

he sprayed something (brake cleaner??) in the air intake and the car did start!!!

Probably bradex easistart - don't use this product! , it damages engines - its only useful as a last resort for knackered engines.

 

You have several possibilties, among them....

 

Crankshaft position sensor (that usually gives 5 beeps IIRC)

Immobiliser problem

Fuel injector pump problem

or a wiring/connector problem to one of the above devices.

 

or

Timing problem (e.g crankshaft pulley has slipped)

 

The easiest thing however is to do a diagnostic scan first.....

 

failing that, change the cps (or get someone to change it)

 

It won't fix itself!

[NikpV]

is the little led flashing on the door - may indicate an immobiliser problem - iirc the doesels will crank but not start - i cant remember whether you have tried more than one key or not Edited September 23, 2008 by NikpV

[sepulchrave]

I will/might poss get shot down for this but here goes anyway

 

""It is just about the only thing which will completely stop a modern ECU controlled engine dead, and is 99% likely to be your problem""

 

Dont think so there are a few things that will stop a diesel engine this is just one of them, (relays,air in fuel lines,timing belt ect ect ect) some of the modern engines will now start without this sensor working as it takes its position from the camshaft sensor instead.

A crankshaft sensor is just a......blah blah blah

 

Cheers for the lecture turk90210 (Captain Obvious), I don't care if you're right or not. I'm trying to help westie with THIS engine. Keep your advice specific please rather than muddying the waters!

 

When my CPS went down it behaved EXACTLY like this, intermittant cutting out when warm, wouldn't restart for 15 minutes, then refusing to start until stone cold, then refusing to start at all. Obviously mine is a petrol engine so I got no spark OR fuel. When I tested the sensor it seemed to work fine because it had cooled down enough to give a reading, I wasted A LOT of time because of this.

 

I believe westie has a dodgy CPS, but until he starts changing the obvious parts then this problem is NOT going to solve itself.

 

The situation is not helped by westies newness to matters mechanical, and unless he throws money at a garage or a mobile mechanic he's gotta fix it himself. In fact it's going to be impossible to repair WITHOUT spending any money since something has clearly failed. Take my hand and walk tthrough the problem with me:

 

The glowplug light sounds like a red herring since the car has a history of playing up when warm and I'm quite sure Green Flag Man would have have checked that the glowplugs were lighting. So it's not that.

 

The immobiliser cuts the fuel supply so Green Flag Man would have seen NO fuel when he cracked the injectors. Therefore it's not the immobiliser.

 

Timing issues are not intermittant, they creep up on you then get worse. Therefore it's not likely to be timing.

 

Which leaves sensors, right back where we started. If westie replaces the CPS and it ISN'T that then it's almost certainly the Cam sensor.

 

I'm afraid I don't have any machine empathy mind powers which will operate over distances greater than 3 feet, and I generally still need my eyes, hands and some tools to augment these abilities.

[westie]

Thanks for all your helps guys.

Please dont fall out over me...or my once adored, Galaxy.

Green flag man did not have a machine to plug into the socket beneath the ashtray.

However, he says he did see diesel when he loosened the injectors.

He seems to think its electrical.

I know it will not fix itself...I know its gonna cost me money.

i dont have much and I dont want to spend money on bits not needed.

I will get an auto electrician to check it out and hopefully I will find out what the problem is.

Thanks again to all those who are trying to help.

Its much appreciated.

[westie]

Sorry....cant find the edit button.

 

The red light on the door appears OK,

 

It flashes on and off when the car is locked.

 

It comes on and stays on when the ignition is turned to its first position, then goes off when turning the car over.

 

...which is what I feel like doing with the blummin thing!!

[sepulchrave]

Try this:

 

http://www.ignitioncarparts.co.uk/detailsp...rchStr=PDTS0068

 

For

[seatkid]

For

[westie]

Thanks guys for all your help.

 

I will get one of these sensors, keep my fingers crossed and when the old bird fires into life, the beers are on me!!

 

I will keep you informed of how I get on.

 

Thanks again guys

[bofus]

Westie

 

where are you? you may have a vag-com owner closeby who may pop around and do a code read for you, to be honest, if you lived within 5-10 miles of gloucester, then for the cost of fuel and a few tinnies/bottle of wine - 30 mins on site would complete a code read, change a CPS, clear any codes, drink tea and kick tyres.......

 

Gav

Edited September 23, 2008 by bofus

[turk90210]

wow sepulchrave bit harsh arn't we with the reply. Think you need to come back down to earth a mo and read my post slowly. I was not attacking you i was mearly trying to point out that there are a number of things that can stop a modern diesel engine not just a cps.

Dont worry westie I try not to fall out with anyone, and I think everyone is entitled to an opinion

Well sepulchrave seen as you like unhelpful remarks made at your expense here are a few more

Cheers for the lecture turk90210 (Captain Obvious),

Lecture NO Captain Obvious maybe but isn't it better to start off with the simple stuff first instead of jumping in feet first

 

I don't care if you're right or not

You might not but Im sure Westie might

 

I'm trying to help westie with THIS engine. Keep your advice specific please rather than muddying the waters!

1-Help - yes we all try and help

2-This engine is a diesel yours was a petrol so lets keep the advise specific shall we

3-muddy waters - well he is with your advise with a cps straight off did I miss the diagnostic part

 

You wasted alot of time with your CPS as your fault was intermittant (intermittant faults are the worse faults to have because of this)but Westie's engine will not run so I would be expecting to get no or poor readings from the CPS if it was faulty which as I said can be easily checked with a multimeter

 

I believe westie has a dodgy CPS, but until he starts changing the obvious parts then this problem is NOT going to solve itself

Ok this is a fair opinion but why change obvious parts at whatever cost when he has no proof yet. This is something a lot of garages would do because they lack basic diagnostic skills "lets change this part at

[sepulchrave]

Dude, whatever. ;)

[westie]

Thanks guys.

I have a mate who has a vag-com and he will plug it in later this week.

I think he got it from ebay and it uses his own lap top to diagnose the problem.....does this sound right?

I think he said it will highlight error codes, rather than say things like "Worn track rod end" !!

Anyway, if it looks like the CPS, the link to the site will be getting my order. If I can get the old girl back on the road for